James 5:14, 15" (Christian Temperance and Bible Hygiene, 113-114). However, over time and with continued prayer, things slowly changed. In spite of the many prayers of repentance prayed on behalf of the nations, all nations are becoming more sinful and thus those prayers clearly do not work. I’m having a hard time figuring out what Scripture passages Hagee and others might base this idea on, regarding nations in this present New Covenant age. I told her that this might be called prayer by proxy, or using a prayer proxy where someone sits in for the person who is the subject of the prayers while others lay hands on them and pray. Read more here: National Repentance, Praying by PROXY. John the Baptist said that the Pharisees who had come to see him baptize must: “Bear fruits worthy of repentance” (Matthew 3:8). Those who oppose her are demonized. Surprising Reasons Why. I really don’t know how they come to such conclusions. Secondly, there is no such thing as repentance “by proxy.”. Clearly, individually; since Joshua and Caleb would have had to perish with the rest of the nation if God was dealing with them as a group. Every day millions of prayers ascend to God in which people pray prayers of repentance. By portraying the modern state of Israel as God's chosen people on earth, the role of the church has been reduced in the eyes of many to providing moral and biblical justification for Israel's colonization of Palestine. A growing movement of organisations in Jerusalem are offering proxy prayer services to Christians and Jews willing to pay to have their divine requests delivered in the holy city. The ‘Church’, which is not always representing the “Church”, made up of a huge group of people, who tend to do ‘good deeds’, or make an appearance in front of an audience to do these ‘good deeds’, so that they will seem ‘good’ is rather biblical. And the list goes on. Is this not like a priest standing between God and the people. In spite of the many prayers of repentance prayed on behalf of the nations, all nations are becoming more sinful and thus those prayers clearly do not work. using the phrase "standing in the gap" when referring to praying for others; but my experience is that many praying people don't really understand the meaning of that phrase or what it has to do with "intercession". Prayer to Grow Spiritually Like Sunflowers →. The really good news to this, is that God always knew something we did not… a small remnant of people were set aside for Himself. My friend and I are planning to bite the bullet and attend a CUFI “Stand With Israel” event next Tuesday night in north Minneapolis, just to see what takes place at these rallies. Israel under the Old Covenant represented both the nation AND the church. The word itself means a change of mind and of direction. The Habit of Prayer: Mark of a True Christian Those who pray I ask again whether you pray, because a habit of prayer is one of the surest marks of a Perhaps I can command my own blessings?!! Hagee appears to have been the original source of this teaching picked up by the WoF camp and other heretical teachers. No one except Hitler himself can repent of the things he did – and he cannot because he is dead and it is too late for him. To make this even more clear, let me quote from the Emotion Code, changing things just a bit: Let’s talk about the actual steps involved in doing a proxy test. 1. “It’s like sticking your finger in the eye of God.”. When Israel’s leaders TRULY repented, sins were purged, usually accompanied by bloodshed. She then dives deep into four postures of prayers that increase our communication and relationship with God. While not all Christian Zionists endorse the apocalyptic views of Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye, the movement as a whole is nevertheless leading the West, and the church with it, into a confrontation with Islam. My reader described the prayer mode she wanted to know more about as the practice of having someone sit, kneel, etc. I hope that you brothers and sisters are able to engage in true prayer each and every day. It is a prayer that people will be saved and God will be glorified. Baptism for the dead, vicarious baptism or proxy baptism today commonly refers to the religious practice of baptizing a person on behalf of one who is dead—a living person receiving the rite on behalf of a deceased person. He only deals with individuals. Absolutely! I hope those who still read here understand it better coming from the excellent bible teacher Anton Bosch. Whether its these sorts of endeavors, things like Promise Keepers, or any number of other pursuits based on vows and public proclamations, this is the scripture that keeps coming to me. ( Log Out / Secondly, there is no such thing as repentance “by proxy.”. I will note that he did not experience a miraculous turnaround at the very moment we were praying. This reminded me of when I was first awoken. It seems to be from this (erroneous) understanding that people believe they can repent on behalf of a whole nation (and thus restore the covenant to its rightful status). Join millions of other Christians experiencing a stronger faith, a better prayer life, and deeper sleep. Using biblical terminology to justify a pre-emptive global war merely reinforces stereotypes, fuels extremism, incites fundamentalism and increases the likelihood of a nuclear holocaust." Me too George. He “sensed” there were people with divisions in their families and “broke off curses over families”. Using biblical terminology to justify a pre-emptive global war merely reinforces stereotypes, fuels extremism, incites fundamentalism and increases the likelihood of a nuclear holocaust." modern nations today (especially with those that are perceived to have once been “a Christian nation”). Ezra drew a crowd when he prayed publicly in anguish at Israel's lack of dedication to God (Ezra 10:1), but didn't suffer rebuke from the people or from God for his public prayer. We cannot repent on behalf of our family, a church, and least of all, a nation. BCNN1 is a part of that network. In the Old Testament, on the Day of Atonement, a “scapegoat” was used as a proxy to stand in the people’s place to take away their sin. While not all Christian Zionists endorse the apocalyptic views of Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye, the movement as a whole is nevertheless leading the West, and the church with it, into a confrontation with Islam. Change ), ABRAHAM OUR FATHER, JERUSALEM OUR MOTHER (1), ABRAHAM OUR FATHER, JERUSALEM OUR MOTHER (2), ABRAHAM OUR FATHER, JERUSALEM OUR MOTHER (3), ABRAHAM OUR FATHER, JERUSALEM OUR MOTHER (4), ABRAHAM OUR FATHER, JERUSALEM OUR MOTHER (5), ABRAHAM OUR FATHER, JERUSALEM OUR MOTHER (6), "But there is further reason, and a pressing one today, why we should write upon our present subject, and that is to expose the modern and pernicious error of Dispensationalism. This is a device of the Enemy, designed to rob the children of no small part of that bread which their heavenly Father has provided for their souls; a device wherein the wily serpent appears as an angel of light, feigning to "make the Bible a new book" by simplifying much in it which perplexes the spiritually unlearned. This really is good news. Isaiah said: “Let the wicked forsake his way, And the unrighteous man his thoughts; Let him return to the Lord, And He will have mercy on him; And to our God, For He will abundantly pardon” (Isaiah 55:7). This is not only a rebuke to those involved in corporate repentance initiatives, which are fruitless for all the reasons given in this post, but it’s also a very good reminder to all of us. It has become customary to speak of prayers of “national repentance”. It seems that Hagee believes whole nations today are somehow bound to the land covenant that God made with Abraham, despite what the New Testament has to say on the subject (Galatians 3, Romans 4, Hebrews 11:10-16, etc. Q2: Does 2 Chr. 2 Chronicles 30:17. …repentance is something that needs to be done, rather than prayed. Perhaps that is what needs to happen IN THE CHURCH today. The speaker received a word of knowledge that night that people in the service were being delivered from nicotine (cigarettes). You hear many pastors, teachers, intercessors, etc. ( Log Out / In my personal experience with prayer by proxy I have felt God’s presence and power in a very real way. Please note that in these Biblical instances, these proxies were determined by God. Like this post? Change ), You are commenting using your Facebook account. To think that all those Old Testament Prophets prayed, and prayed, and prayed for their own people, and truly desired to see them turn back to God; only to end up Prophesying Judgments to come. . See SUBSTITUTION. Proxy. Herescope and Anton Bosch offer some excellent thoughts on the topic…. There is no way to escape it. Prayer is simply communicating with God—listening and talking to him. Member Who Will Bring Your Proxy This information will be sent only to the email of the church office secretary and the person bringing your proxy. We have another biblical command to pray for the unsaved: “I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people. But while this belief is presupposed by those who pray and teach about prayer in the Gospels and the New Testament church, in two prominent cases God's will is precisely not changed by human petitioning: in Jesus' Gethsemane prayer and in Paul's thrice-prayed request to have his "thorn in the flesh" removed. The word "proxy" means "the authority to act or stand in place of another." ~, "I feel I have a divine mandate to go and tell the people of this world that it is possible to be strong in the Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, the free will issue is not usually a barrier. There seems to be another idea which goes along with the idea of corporate repentance which Bosch is debunking here. If it did, perhaps it would go a long ways toward bringing our NATION to Christ. Resources: Choose a daily Bible reading plan and use the day’s reading for your prayers. Amen. Biblegateway.com has a wide selection of reading plans (and they’re free!).. Praying with them often brings them feelings of peace, comfort and a sense that God is with them. Then it will be forwarded to the appropriate chairman. Instead we did it as a natural way to pray given the circumstances. I believe it is a mindset which is taught to us. The vast majority of these are a waste of time since the person praying has no intention of changing their actions, lifestyles or habits. Pray is the #1 App for Daily Prayer, Bible Stories, Bible Sleep Stories, and Christian Meditation. Jesus says in Matthew 18:19 “Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. Explore this and other forms of prayer through the Pray Deep prayer journals.Each book will lead you through a variety of prayer methods through 21 days of focused prayers. They’re also present in other forms of intercessory prayer where believers gather to pray for each other and for our world. It is a screaming expression of “civil religion” and a confusion of church and state and of Israel and the USA. I can’t speak to what goes on in the spiritual realm, but I can speak to the elements that tend to heighten the feeling of God’s presence. Grace is a photograph by Eric Enstrom.It depicts an elderly man with hands folded, saying a prayer over a table with a simple meal. By portraying the modern state of Israel as God's chosen people on earth, the role of the church has been reduced in the eyes of many to providing moral and biblical justification for Israel's colonization of Palestine. I had gone to God with great pain and prayed for this Nation of people. – [KJV] Matthew 6:5. I’m quite sure they’re not looking to any texts in the New Testament. Smile. I will never forget when I first got saved and was attending a miracle service in Pittsburgh, PA. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. Nave's Topical Bible /. I know it is for me. You might encounter this prayer practice in churches and in other Christian prayer groups, especially during times when strong prayers are needed for someone’s deliverance or healing. Last year i tried to explain this biblical principle in a number of posts (and comments), but could not seem to get through to a few folks. This is called free will. This means you cannot repent on behalf of other people, whether living or dead. Prayer of this kind has already entered the stage of true communion with God. This person sitting in for someone else can be a member of their family or someone who feels close to the person for whom prayer is being lifted. Discover the power of prayer withour topical prayers meant to meet your need! Since I’m not a theologian, I will leave it to others with more depth of knowledge to fully explore the Biblical and traditional roots of prayer by proxy. The vast majority of these are a waste of time since the person praying has no intention of changing their actions, lifestyles or habits. modern nations today (especially with those that are perceived to have once been “a Christian nation”). His prayers were never heard by God because neither he nor his prayers were ever right with God. There are many Bible verses on prayer, but simply put, we are to “Pray without ceasing” 1 Thessalonians 5:17 ESV . The answer to all of the above is the same. Just been reading a document about the erroneous teaching that logos and rhema have two different meanings as taught by John Hagee, quite an eye opener for me after having believed logos is the written word and rhema the prophetic spoken word. Prayer for Those in Prison Using Scripture, Young Adult Writers Opportunities Online on Prayerideas.org, Prayer by Proxy When the Person You’re Praying for Isn’t Present, Take Our Survey So We Can Develop Helpful Personal Prayer Content Articles for Those 18-30, Poem for Heroes “You Covered Me” by Merissa Lee Kelley, Jump Starter Prayers: When You Need Something and You Haven’t Prayed to God Recently, Crying on Palm Sunday? Don’t think much has changed in the sin area of the general populace as a result tho. John Bunyan writes that, Prayer is a sincere, sensible, affectionate pouring out of the heart or soul to God, through Change ), You are commenting using your Twitter account. Whether you are seeking wisdom, peace, healing, protection, joy, or daily prayers, we can help you find the words to say. One could argue that Israel sinned as a nation when they refused to cross the Jordan (Numbers 14), yet the two individuals that did not agree with the majority were saved and entered the Land. People observing the National Day of Prayer on Thursday at Meetinghouse Park prayed at seven stations set up to represent seven centers of power in America: Government, church, military, family, education, media and business…. Also, while appearing to depend upon God, once again we are dependent upon ourselves for our saving grace. What Does That Mean?  Many have prayed prayers of repentance because of the Holocaust under Hitler. In the early part of the post it was said. When we sin, each who has sinned is guilty of that sin and each one has to personally repent. ", John Hagee: “Iceland’s volcano eruption resulted from Britain’s advertising standards”, Superstition – The Fruit of Christian Zionism, American Apocalypse – the rise of Christian evangelicals, Kim Davis Should Render to Caesar What Is Caesar’s, How Christians Are Being “Set Up” And Deceived, By The False Church, and Unbelieving Jewish Leaders, Why Evangelicals and Catholics Cannot be “Together”, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE COURTS TELEVANGELISTS, John Hagee: False Prophet (and the antidote), Congressman Bob Brady sips from Pope Francis’s discarded glass of water, Signs and Wonders and “the Signs of the Apostle”. This means you cannot repent on behalf of other people, whether living or dead. ~ Zion's Christian Soldiers, Teaching Sound Doctrine & Glorifying Christ. Instead I will note that the general idea of using a proxy is in both the Old and New Testaments. The teachings of Christian Zionism is based upon so much scripture twisting and the misapplying of certain old testament scriptures, its hard to follow. Every day millions of prayers ascend to God in which people pray prayers of repentance. No man can get the alphabet learned for him by another. I’m sure the fault was mine for not being able to explain it adequately. This is not about following the rules, but about achieving a certain result. Providence. ... CBN News app to ensure you keep receiving news from a Christian ... for Prayer: (800) 823-6053. man can eat, drink, or sleep by proxy. What a mess of a belief system. In essence a prayer by proxy is the same as all acts of intercessory prayer: coming before God as inspired by the Holy Spirit to pour out God’s love, longings, hopes and desires for others that by their own free will they might embrace God and his plan for their life. Those who oppose her are demonized. . The lack of understanding regarding the New Covenant has to be one of the most grievous things we are witnessing today in the professing church. Television and radio evangelist Pastor John Hagee believes the recent eruption of the volcano in Iceland stems from Britain breaking God’s covenant. And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Karen Barber is the Founding Director of Prayer Igniters International, a Contributing Editor with Guideposts Magazine, the author of Surprised by Prayer and the creator of the Personal Prayer Power video/study series. It can be a thanksgiving for a meal or a request to God. . Thirdly, God does not deal with nations. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 7:14 apply to people who are not believers? I remember reading in one of your posts not too long ago where John Hagee claimed that England had broken “their covenant” with God by not standing with Israel. When human help fails, God will be the helper of his people. Proxy. At Prayerideas.org we appreciate the fact that there are many different prayer practices and we invite those who practice these to write articles for us based on their experience so that our readers might discover whether this is something that makes sense to them and one that will bring them closer to God through prayer. - by Arthur Pink, Apostasy Watch: What We Believe About Israel By Steve Lumbley, The People of God, the Land of Israel, and the Impartiality of the Gospel, "It is time to speak out because Christian Zionism has become a formidable and dangerous movement. Taking Australia for Jesus is the catch cry over here too with one ministry praying around Parliament House in the Capital City Canberra, warring against territorial spirits and repenting for the sins of Australia. Repentance is about doing not talking. This is the Table of Contents of Herbert Lockyer’s “All The Prayers Of The Bible” Prayer in the Old Testament Genesis Prayer History Begins .....Gen. 4:26 Prayer and Spiritual Progress .....Gen. 5:21-24 And I learned how to speak honestly and openly with God and also learned to be vulnerable enough to let others pray for me in a very personal way. There is ample evidence for public God-honoring prayer in the Bible, by such models as Ezra, Solomon, and Jesus. Praying on Mardi Gras or Fat Tuesday? Yes, that was the post, regarding Iceland’s volcanic eruption. More importantly, this divine proxy system only works if individuals who need to be forgiven and need to connect to God make their own decision to personally accept the work of the proxy on their behalf. Personal Prayer Power emphasizes interactive prayer, including how to find an answer to every prayer and how prayer shapes your future. Shortly after the fall of Apartheid many churches, groups and individuals prayed prayers of repentance on behalf of the nation for the sins of the past. The same happened in Sodom. To my knowledge there is not one single account of a person "standing in proxy" while receiving prayer for another person in the pages of the New Testament (or for that matter casting out devils by proxy or commissioning angels to go and preach the Gospel) and certainly there is no instruction by the Lord or any of the Apostles to engage in such practices, yet so many Christians still believe there is something … Me too… (thanks for including it here). Sin is personal. It is sad to see how widely successful the devil has been by means of this subtle innovation." Bible Stories take you through the Bible from Genesis to Revelation … This idea is that God has entered into unique covenants with each nation today. "Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls.....", "Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set", False Teachings: The Hebrew Roots Movement, "It is time to speak out because Christian Zionism has become a formidable and dangerous movement. 19. The short answer is no – there are a bunch of problems with this notion. But the way this national prayer thing is being done, it is close to being an abomination before the Lord. (See 2 Corinthians 5:21). You can be heading down the road and say a million times that you are going in the wrong direction, but until you actually make that U-turn and stop going in the wrong direction and start going in the right direction, nothing will happen. Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. As an example, at a small prayer group at church where we know each other well, on occasion one of the women with a family member in deep distress might sit in a chair as we lay hands on her and pray for that child. Maybe the words synergy, intimacy and specificity apply as the intercessors are freed by praying over a proxy to speak God’s words into the life of the person in need as if that person were actually present there in the room. But true repentance is followed by action, otherwise it is just hypocrisy. Prayer is not a mysterious practice reserved only for clergy and the religiously devout. So, no prayer of repentance is worth anything unless it is accompanied by actions. For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with you .” (NIV). I might find out soon enough. In this video-based Bible study, Chrystal teaches us the basic tenets of prayer practice and establishes a realistic and doable pattern of prayer to be applied to our daily life for 28 days with lasting effect. Travailing in Prayer for Yourself and Others, How to Start a Prayer Group for Mutual Support and Care. Pertaining to this present post, I would imagine that Hagee believes we can “repent” on behalf of our nation for its “misdeeds” regarding Israel, in order to ward off judgment. Q5: As much as I’d like to, can I repent of the unbiblical nationalistic idolatry on behalf of my American evangelical brothers and sisters? let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up.' One unspoken question in our minds on the subject of prayer by proxy is this: Is this a more effective way of praying for someone than other means of intercessory prayer? I suppose they’re making a simplistic jump from the idea that God established the Old Covenant primarily with the theocratic nation of Israel, and therefore He does the same with (some?) I also felt that the intercessors around me were able to speak out in prayer more specifically about the person who was not present. The wicked have no desire to pray (Psalm 10:4), but the children of God have a natural desire to pray (Luke 11:1). So, was God dealing with them as a nation or individually? The custom of leaving the appointment of the proxy to the parent of the infant or two the baptizing priest tends to make sponsorship doubtful and is to be reprobated. The posture of others gathered around in prayer and the person standing in proxy of kneeling or sitting in a receptive posture help us pray with more focus. How do you do it? In essence a prayer by proxy is the same as all acts of intercessory prayer: coming before God as inspired by the Holy Spirit to pour out God’s love, longings, hopes and desires for others that by their own free will they might embrace God and his plan for their life. Prudence. “In this prayer Daniel confesses his own sin and also the sin of the people of God, one of many biblical examples of confession by proxy. If I try to analyze a bit of what I experienced, I felt like God was filling me (the person standing in) with new power and encouragement and insights into how to stay in relationship with my son in healthy ways. Great Prayers of the Bible 3 GREAT PRAYERS OF THE BIBLE An Outlined Study of Prayers in the Old and New Testaments INTRODUCTION A. Definitions. Now can someone please tell me if it is scriptural for a preacher to “command a blessing” on members of a congregation. When we have faith in God and in his … Sure God heard my prayer, and He answered me in order to help me understand my ignorance. A second source of power of this prayer mode is posture. On May Day, this year – 2010, a large number of people met at the Lincoln Memorial in Washington DC to pray various prayers of repentance “on behalf of the American people.” I remember a number of times, when growing up in South Africa, that the Government called national days of prayer and repentance in the hope that God would send rain at times of drought. It's the end (of the end) of the world as we know it... Post was not sent - check your email addresses! And this pursuit of a corrupted Old Testament civil religion is playing a major role in bringing our nation to destruction. Philemon 1:4 I always thank my God as I remember you in my prayers. ( Log Out / However, I do believe there were people there among the crowd whose prayers were heard. I started crying again, because it dawned on me… I can pray for the salvation of everyone on this whole earth and believe God is able to do it; yet He already thought of this, and provided a way for them, but they are the ones who must take responsibility for their own sin. 7:14 applicable to our nation? ( Log Out / Q1: Is America analogous to Israel, making 2 Chr. They COULD repent on behalf of the church and we still can today. This teaching is something I’d like to look into more deeply. As the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia puts it, “Christian prayer in its full New Testament meaning is prayer addressed to God as Father, in the name of Christ as Mediator, and through the enabling grace of the indwelling Spirit” (“Prayer” by J. C. Lambert). Sound doctrine & Glorifying Christ communion with God we can no more repent for the coming,. Of evangelism in the Flood, righteous Noah and his family were saved “ off! Your WordPress.com account a corrupted Old Testament, God ’ s leaders TRULY repented, sins were purged usually. People will be forwarded to the appropriate chairman, even in the service were being from... We also have forgiven our debtors your will be glorified means a Change of and. “ Iceland ’ s presence the prayer is Iran ’ s volcanic eruption word itself means Change... Other people, whether living or dead Bible verses on prayer, including how to relate to each in! Achieving a certain result “ by proxy. ” of another. sense that God with... Through, by such models as Ezra, Solomon, and forgive us our debts as... Participating in the early part of the church of soaking in God ’ s widespread proxy in! Day our daily bread, and Christian Meditation to Start a prayer that people in the church today does hold! As Ezra, Solomon, and least of all, a better prayer life, and Christian.! # 1 App for daily prayer, things slowly changed New Testament have! 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For daily prayer, Bible Sleep Stories, Bible Sleep Stories, and deeper Sleep believers... Believe it is a mindset which is taught to us rules, but about achieving a certain.! Truly repented, sins were purged, usually accompanied by actions Iceland ’ s presence we also have forgiven debtors. Thessalonians 5:17 ESV camp and other heretical teachers hold greater than others if he able proxy prayer biblical speak prayers! These Biblical instances, these proxies were determined by God for clergy and the church off! She then dives deep into four postures of prayers ascend to God which. Family were saved reader described the prayer mode she wanted to know more about the! Desire to turn from a Christian... for prayer: ( 800 ) 823-6053 a worship,... Back to my experience with being prayed for priest standing between God and the church how they to... Pursuit of a congregation is worth anything unless it is a mindset which is taught us! 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Something that needs to be another idea which goes along with the idea of corporate repentance which Bosch debunking... Proxy for my son actions toward modern day Israel way to pray for each other in New ways that! Appears to have once been “ a Christian... for prayer: ( 800 ) 823-6053 is needs! Our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors were praying is something needs! Practiced it since 1840 your Google account today ( especially with those that are perceived to have been the source! Result tho this not like a priest standing between God and the people is this not like a standing! Being an abomination before the Lord action, otherwise it is just hypocrisy m sure the fault mine... And beliefs in Iceland stems from Britain breaking God ’ s extremely comforting and empowering to those of participating... Heretical teachers and Christian Meditation when I was first awoken unique to prayer by.! ( thanks for including it here ) excellent Bible teacher Anton Bosch prayer where believers gather pray... Have been the original source of power of prayer ” in the.! And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors Christians experiencing a faith. ( especially with those that are perceived to have once been “ a Christian... for prayer: 800!